Rostra Cruise Control Fitment K1200S

[kpavey]

So now I've designed up the 3rd cruise control bracket...this time I haven't used any of the included connectors. I made up an 'E' shaped bracket which the cruise cable slots into and have some but not much slack. This E bracket is flat and attaches to where I was using the eyelet connector on the idle screw. The other bracket to the engine which holds the cruise cable is now higher than the prior one. Overall travel now is around 45mm, a bit more than required but should be in the ballpark. The good news is the metal cable now back feeds up the cruise cable when using normal throttle which is safer (can't catch on anything).

It is difficult to position the cruise cable to get the 41mm of required travel and also avoid limiting the wide open position of the throttle bodies. Any back force on the throttle's motion will close the butterflies (that's how that throttle stop solenoid works). The position I've chosen allows very near wide open but is probably a few % short on manual throttle.

If I was able to I'd drill a hole in the idle arm about 75% of the way up it as this probably would provide the 41mm of travel. However access to get a drill in there isn't feasible and I don't want to pull the whole TB assy apart. I'm also not convinced that I need access to full throttle with cruise (nor do I want it!). My feeling is getting the slack minimal and therefore maximising the controllers workable range is the key.

OK road test required (and fingers crossed for a better steady state cruise).

[kpavey]

Hmmm well another trial and suboptimal result. Probably actually no better than the prior run but I am learning...really I am !

I am confident that my new bracketry and adjusted cable slack is a good thing. Almost no dead band so take up should be quick and the cable back feeds - all good there...

Basically going to Setup Timer/8 cylinder high has affected the gain (as well as the take up speed). No free lunch it seems. Upon further reading, the dude who did the Honda Goldwing 1100i Rostra install aka Jim (and who has done arguably the most analytical research into this) states at the following link http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum9/30381-3.html

"that the ppm, the gain, the setup timer, the linkage are not independent variables (as the instructions would lead you to believe).. changing one changes what is necessary with the others.. for example, setting ppm to 18000 when actual is 9650 changes the gain so that you will have to compensate with the gain or setup timer.. likewise changing the setup timer changes gain.. so you have to compensate with ppm or gain..."

The above PPM is in the context of a Goldwing so don't worry about the specific numbers stated, but understand that the various settings affect each other...confusing huh?

So anyway, I'm back to the '4cyl low' Setup Timer, as I would sooner have a slightly longer take-up but reasonable speed regulation than the other way around. The difference to the last trial where I tried 4cyl low is I'll have less deadband in the system.

Stay tuned for another exciting episode in this saga! Cheers

[kpavey]

Finally I smell victory! Several more trials have been done and I have found usable settings as follows:
Gain - Ultra Low
PPM - 8000
Engine Timer/Take up - 8 Cylinder Low
Transmission - Auto (for Neutral Start Switch cutout via clutch banjo switch)
VSS - Sinusoidal (using Rostra kit with 5 magnets)

Note that the PPM has been increased from the theoretically correct 6000 range. One downside of this is that it won't engage below 50mph/80kmh but that's a good tradeoff given the rest of its behaviour. Increasing PPM has reduced the aggressiveness of the system (reducing the gain). Why? I don't know really, but it does work.

Take up is smooth and instantaneous and does not overshoot the setpoint initially. Speed regulation is pretty good. On flat roads it's rock steady. On hills it will overshoot about 5km/h then gradually correct back to target over the next 10secs approx. Decrementing 1mph there is an undershoot of about the same 5km/h, then corrects itself. Holding the coast button it decelerates smoothly until you let off the button, then stays at that point.

Overall I'd subjectively rate the performance of the system at about an 8.5 out of 10. Very usable. I'm not suggesting this is the only setting as there is much interaction between the various DIP switch settings. However I can say it is quite a livable and usable setting that in my opinion is safe to use. Cheers.

[saCUL]

Fantastic result - that itch is well and truly scratched!

Now go and enjoy it with a long ride - maybe to the Island!

saCUL

[kpavey]

Thanks! Yeah very glad to see a usable result. Enjoyed the trip from Melbourne to Geelong today, hardly had to touch the throttle at all once on the freeway except for some errand cars/trucks.

I have now placed a document with loads of pics at https://files.me.com/kpavey/q7a8ox - hopefully there's enough info there for anyone interested to replicate. Cheers.

[Bernardo]

Congratulation Kendrick, good job and I really impressed with your perseverance...

[r1 Convert]

I know it s bit late now but is there nothing that comes from the front abs sensor that could have been used instead of the magnetic sensor for speed control ?

[kpavey]

Hi Jon

I didn't want to touch the ABS system due to safety concerns and the risk of damaging it (read $$$). However you could potentially, but the frequency of pulses will exceed what the module will accept, so you'd need a 'divider' to get it below around 500Hz or thereabouts. I think there's about 50 slots on the front disc, at 100km/h you'd have around 750Hz, so a divide by 4 or thereabouts might work. The divider I looked at cost around $200 which also discouraged me but there may be cheaper ones out there.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, you just have to like peeling...

[r1 Convert]

Got to say hat of for keep persevering and for continuing to write it up. Im sure it will come in handy to someone

[kpavey]

Major good news!

I managed to get the onboard VSS working...!!! Big thanks to BMW Australia who took the call and investigated on a R1200 and called back to advise. Shame Southbank BMW couldn't do the same. The long and short of it is if you get a 300R resistor (1Watt is easier to work with) and connect it between the accessory power and the other end of the resistor to the Blue/Green VSS wire (pin 2). Then take the signal from pin 2 to the Rostra module (grey wire).

Using the Hz range on my digital voltmeter attached to the tank bag, I measured 89 pulses/sec at 105km/h indicated on the instruments. Approx 3.05 pulses/metre. Ie 4,919 PPM.

As the overall PPM is in the same range as before, there are no DIP switch changes (for PPM) required. However I set my bike to 8000PPM for better dynamic performance. Being around 10% higher a pulse rate vs the magnet arrangement should provide higher sampling, less error, therefore slightly lower gain, and better speed regulation. It should also reduce the minimum engagement speed by 10%, so the 80km/h zone should work. Handy.

It's a square wave so DIP switch 10 needs to be in the OFF position for square wave.

Test ride showed that it worked all the way down to 60km/h - awesome. 5-10km/h of undershoot up the hills with slow recovery and not as much overshoot as before. Again though very usable as-is and can get rid of that Rostra VSS kit eyesore off the front axle.

Next step - May try low gain instead of ultra low.

Very pharking happy!

[Eka]

hahaha. Great, you really did fight for it. Cheers

[kpavey]

OK I've now revised the 'how I installed it' document reflecting the change to the onboard VSS arrangement and what I'm considering now final DIP switch settings.

The link is at files.me.com/kpavey/65um7n

Cheers Kendrick

[Bernardo]

Again, excellent job Kendrick

[kpavey]

Just updating this 'blog' with another quite usable set of settings:

Gain - Low
PPM - 10,000 (even though actual PPM is about half this!)
Take Up/Engine Timer - 6 Cylinder Low
Other settings unchanged (note using VSS pin/300R mod for speed source)

Only by increasing the PPM can you up the gain from Ultra Low to Low as increasing PPM reduces overall gain, hence the Gain can be upped.

The tradeoff is that the minimum engagement speed has risen from around 60km/h to 70km/h. Speed control on the flats is excellent, she overshoots a little up hills again (2-5km/h) and initially undershoots but the extra gain comes on to correct pretty quickly without resulting in any bucking bronco antics. Very good control within reason going down hills (I'm talking pretty substantial ones here - if anyone knows Reynolds Rd near Templestowe in Melbourne they will know what I mean). Initial take up is silky smooth after pressing SET. Overall about an 8/10. I guess I would sooner it went over speed up hills as usually that's less likely to be where the police are waiting!

Pressing SET to decrement speed in 1mph steps is handled more smoothly - before it would undershoot around 10km/h, then have a slow recovery which was a little annoying. Mind you I don't use that function that often.

As I'm about to go on a long trip, I will probably leave it as is.

By the way, I called my insurer today and told them about the fitment of the Electronic Cruise Control kit (and removal of the mechanical Throttlemeister) and they didn't bat an eyelid. I had written a 'white paper' in anticipation and was prepared to get an engineering certificate, but it seems I won't need it. I did run it past my Homologation Engineering friend and he seemed satisfied with it suggesting I should change jobs...

Driving both the Rostra cruise speed input with the VSS and the PC-V for mapping by gear has not resulted in any loading issues or speed sense drop out which is also good news. Cheers.

[EDIT/UPDATE - after trialling the above setting at 10,000ppm I am reverting to the 8,000PPM setting and ultra low gain again. The 10000 PPM setting fluctuated at speed a little too much, and my riding friends were able to detect it. So refer to the guide I published as it has the best results I've found so far in it. Worked flawlessy otherwise over 2000kms in some absolute torrential rain without any issues. Cheers]

[robertwentworth]

Just updating this 'blog' with another quite usable set of settings:

Gain - Low
PPM - 10,000 (even though actual PPM is about half this!)
Take Up/Engine Timer - 6 Cylinder Low
Other settings unchanged (note using VSS pin/300R mod for speed source)

Only by increasing the PPM can you up the gain from Ultra Low to Low as increasing PPM reduces overall gain, hence the Gain can be upped.

The tradeoff is that the minimum engagement speed has risen from around 60km/h to 70km/h. Speed control on the flats is excellent, she overshoots a little up hills again (2-5km/h) and initially undershoots but the extra gain comes on to correct pretty quickly without resulting in any bucking bronco antics. Very good control within reason going down hills (I'm talking pretty substantial ones here - if anyone knows Reynolds Rd near Templestowe in Melbourne they will know what I mean). Initial take up is silky smooth after pressing SET. Overall about an 8/10. I guess I would sooner it went over speed up hills as usually that's less likely to be where the police are waiting!

Pressing SET to decrement speed in 1mph steps is handled more smoothly - before it would undershoot around 10km/h, then have a slow recovery which was a little annoying. Mind you I don't use that function that often.

As I'm about to go on a long trip, I will probably leave it as is.

By the way, I called my insurer today and told them about the fitment of the Electronic Cruise Control kit (and removal of the mechanical Throttlemeister) and they didn't bat an eyelid. I had written a 'white paper' in anticipation and was prepared to get an engineering certificate, but it seems I won't need it. I did run it past my Homologation Engineering friend and he seemed satisfied with it suggesting I should change jobs...

Driving both the Rostra cruise speed input with the VSS and the PC-V for mapping by gear has not resulted in any loading issues or speed sense drop out which is also good news. Cheers.

[EDIT/UPDATE - after trialling the above setting at 10,000ppm I am reverting to the 8,000PPM setting and ultra low gain again. The 10000 PPM setting fluctuated at speed a little too much, and my riding friends were able to detect it. So refer to the guide I published as it has the best results I've found so far in it. Worked flawlessy otherwise over 2000kms in some absolute torrential rain without any issues. Cheers]

AMAZING! BRILLIANT!!!!

I would like to read your how to guide you wrote, we all owe you a pat on the back. I cant seem to access any of your links.
Keep up the excellent work!

[kpavey]

Rob

Sorry the link appears to have changed. Try this one - files.me.com/kpavey/ 65um7n
Do not add www in front of it, copy it as-is. Glad all that blood, sweat, occasional swearing and tears is proving interesting to others. Cheers.

[robertwentworth]

Have you created a kit for this yet? HAHA
I would love to purchase this and install it for my 2600 mile trip that is coming up next year haha.

[kpavey]

Hi Robert

He he he....um no....it is a fiddly job but at least you are starting with a known solution and hopefully that cuts out most of the frustration and 'how will I make this work' stuff. It would be a good weekend or two's work I expect, with a bit of cut/shut soldering and some minor metal fabrication for the 2 brackets required. Now that you're in the winter there, it sounds like a good holiday project to me. Happy to support Q&A as you go. Cheers.

[robertwentworth]

Hi Robert

He he he....um no....it is a fiddly job but at least you are starting with a known solution and hopefully that cuts out most of the frustration and 'how will I make this work' stuff. It would be a good weekend or two's work I expect, with a bit of cut/shut soldering and some minor metal fabrication for the 2 brackets required. Now that you're in the winter there, it sounds like a good holiday project to me. Happy to support Q&A as you go. Cheers.

Actually, Im in Afghanistan fighting the War on Terrorism with the US Army. I wont get home untill Fall of 2012.. so maybe by then you will patent it

[ffearless]

For those who come after, there is a readily accessible VSS wire to use. It is the #2 wire at the GPS plug that is located between the steering head and airbox below the battery cover. If unused, it has a cap on it.

[kpavey]

So Ffearless it seems you followed suit and fitted one up also? Are you happy with it? Are your final DIP switch settings the same as mine?
I have had one other person from the forum contact me so there's a few going around now or underway. Cool....always a good feeling to know you may have helped others....