Kawasaki fight back against S1000RR

[motorbikez]

First of the Japanese manufacturers to fight back against the stunning success of the BMW S1000RR.

In todays MCN an insider from Kawasaki said the 2011 ZX 10 R will be better the BMW S1000RR having sophisticated traction control and ABS plus other unstated high spec electronics.

Remains to be seen but we all knew the Japs wouldn't stand still after being shocked by the S1000RR interesting times in the 1 litre sport bike division.

[SHIVA]

ha ha... if they want to beat it, they should do it Japanese style, no ABS, no traction, no premium suspension, just more power and less weight and sell it for 3 grand cheaper! that's Japanese.

If they start adding ABS (they don't have the right technology yet, the one on Honda weighs 25lbs or 11kg), traction, premium suspension and all that it will be priced similar to the RR.

BIKE mag predicted this, they said in 2 years all sport bikes will be like the RR...

[JHB1984]

maybe they do it like Ducati on there new Multistrada and just buy the Bosch Brembo (BMW) ABS system

[SHIVA]

but the duc starts at 15K US, in the base model...

[JHB1984]

we will see how "cheap" the kawa will be

[badger]

ha ha.... That did really make me laugh a bit. I love Kwackers - always a hoot to ride, but if there is one make in the world to dump you off in something viscous (then turn itself around, ride back, and do a burn out on you...) is a sport Kawasaki... Lov'em for it. So of all the bikes that actually DO need ABS, traction control...

[motorbikez]

Somehow I don't think S1000RR owners will be quaking in their boots.

[SHIVA]

MCN is covering the new Kawa this week:

[motorbikez]

Mcn says the kwak will have around 190 bhp and as they stated in my original post ABS, and a sophisticated traction control system, the engine is canted forward slightly and is very similar in size to the S1000RR.

Sounds like they've ripped apart a S1000RR and copied it.

[Mirage_ZA]

Very aggressive looking - I like it (the looks).

[Eka]

I like the first pictures of this kawa. It's good first impression. Do we remember the good first impression of S1000RR at all? There was not much good first impression at all. It was the most weird and hated design and so odd that everyone talked about it. Well, where we are now... at least in Finland it's the most selling 1000cc bike now. I was sure it to happen. Anyhow we lost one of our member and moderator from site caratz, as he hated where beemer is going. That was sad. It was anyway very good move from BMW.

They have had so many lazy years rolling together hand in hand in east, so there is now really need for real step forward.

[Mirage_ZA]

I like the first pictures of this kawa. It's good first impression. Do we remember the good first impression of S1000RR at all? There was not much good first impression at all. It was the most weird and hated design and so odd that everyone talked about it. Well, where we are now... at least in Finland it's the most selling 1000cc bike now. I was sure it to happen. Anyhow we lost one of our member and moderator from site caratz, as he hated where beemer is going. That was sad. It was anyway very good move from BMW.

They have had so many lazy years rolling together hand in hand in east, so there is now really need for real step forward.

S1000RR still doesn't really move me....in my riding group there is K13S, few 1098, one Multistrada 1200, one S1000RR, one 999S, Kawa 1400GTR, 2 x K12S, new R1 and new Fireblade....so we have a mix of everything. Wherever we park, 1098 gets attention first.

What happened with caratz ?

[Mirage_ZA]

Mcn says the kwak will have around 190 bhp and as they stated in my original post ABS, and a sophisticated traction control system, the engine is canted forward slightly and is very similar in size to the S1000RR.

Sounds like they've ripped apart a S1000RR and copied it.

What makes you say that ?
Don't you think that year ago you could say the same for S1KRR - inline 4, chain driven, standard suspension.
I love BMW and new superbike is fantastic but let's please give some credit to other brands - both Japanese and Italians are still rulling in Moto GP and WSB so surely they know a thing or two about fast motorbikes. And our beloved K12/3S has the same face of Honda Blackbird from decade ago...

[Eka]

Without bms's big efford, there would not have happened anything much. All those japanise would follow it for sure.

I liked the most those prototypes of underbelly hidden exhausts and short cans or so. Anyway ktm made it first from sport bikes and it was for me very catching. Bmw's model is almost ok, but that ugly thing under the bike is not nice at all. In the other hand, i think for example akra full exhaust is too old fashionated and much too long for S1000RR. Well, it's just my opinion.

Many thing are first in prototypes for press and people to melt it up first for a while. I like open minded and original ideas.

From Ducati i like 999R the most.

[motorbikez]

Mcn says the kwak will have around 190 bhp and as they stated in my original post ABS, and a sophisticated traction control system, the engine is canted forward slightly and is very similar in size to the S1000RR.

Sounds like they've ripped apart a S1000RR and copied it.

What makes you say that ?
Don't you think that year ago you could say the same for S1KRR - inline 4, chain driven, standard suspension.
I love BMW and new superbike is fantastic but let's please give some credit to other brands - both Japanese and Italians are still rulling in Moto GP and WSB so surely they know a thing or two about fast motorbikes. And our beloved K12/3S has the same face of Honda Blackbird from decade ago...

Ermm that was a tongue in cheek comment Mirage of course I'm well aware of the engineering skills of the japaneese bike manufacturers I've owned a number over the years,the last an RR6 Honda fireblade which was a superb machine.

[Mach Schnell]

Copying is the sincerest form of flattery to be sure. But Kawasaki hasn't really been at the top of any liter bike racing that I can recall in recent years, so maybe they need to copy someone. Maybe they've been winning something, but I've missed it.

I have to say that when I deliberate between the S1000RR and the Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha offerings in the class, I keep coming back to the fact that the R1 won last year. BMW is now beginning to celebrate podiums. That's the sort of progress that is needed.

I am thinking that in 2012 when MotoGP rules change and engines go back to liter size, that maybe BMW could enter MotoGP ... but success in FIM Superbike would sure be a nice step on the way.

[viperclaw]

BMW did use a Suzuki as its basis for the S1000RR. They took it and used the best aspects of it. I am not sure what year model it was but it was but was probably an '04 or there abouts. It would take Kawi at least two years to copy or reverse engineer the BMW stuff. If the Kawi has that power, ABS, and traction control they were already working on them. It is now to their benefit to get it out on a road model.

[SHIVA]

Viper, this new Kawa is a direct assault on BMW. they pushed back release of the new ZX10R just so they can redesign it, after the RR proved too popular. They put aside the initial design which was a simpler evolutionary step of the bike and went full on after BMW. as I said above, BIKE mag said, in two years all sport bikes will be like the BMW.

[SHIVA]

MCN released a pic of the ZX10R today. Boy they are taking the imitation/flattery thing a little too far.

[Mach Schnell]

They certainly appear to be taking the "flattery" to a high level.

Part of this is probably due to the fact that BMW has historically allowed form to follow function. They've worked a lot of the problems using high technology, and once their bike is in the marketplace, the folks who thrive by reverse engineering will be right there to take advantage of it. The function is right, and the form follows. The copycats will copy the form, and hope for the function to follow.

Sadly, its probably only a short matter of time before Kymco, Hyosung, and similar are also copying.

[Eka]

hahaha, how cheap they can be. Let's wait for asymmetric lights.

[JHB1984]

sounds very ... ... big bang'ish ... not as screamy like a "classic" kawa
on the other hand ... the "war sream" could come later on the rev band

[motorbikez]

More pics of 2011 Kawa testing at Suzuka

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-new ... 535-2.html

[Paratus]

It's official and it was inevitable, Kawasaki has responded to BMW's staggering hp figure by upping the 2011 ZX10-R to 197 hp, 207 with full ram air effect at speed. Thus begins a new horsepower war, with Suzuki and Yamaha (despite financial woes?) sure to follow - will Honda also take up the fight? Less likely but we won't know until they update the Fireblade. Ducati couldn't possibly keep up with their V-Twin and the RSV4 is very fresh, so we won't see a dramatic change for at least a year or two from Aprilia.

Most impressive is the curb weight: 436 lb (I suspect this is wet w/o ABS, so 443 w ABS). This puts BMW at a 12 lb disadvantage, and 4 hp down.

How will BMW respond? When will the S1000RR receive its first update/revamp? Shiva?

Very interesting times. Kawasaki also put BPF as standard, TC as standard with 3 modes, Race ABS optional ($1000), and 3 mode engine mapping standard. Reworked rear suspension features horizontal shock mount, interesting execution. It looks like price wise it is shoe to shoe with the S1RR.

Photos and info from http://www.autoblog.com, the direct link is below. Full Kawasaki Press release is found at the bottom of their article.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/05/2011-kawasaki-zx-10r-more-power-less-weight-more-speed/

Here's a pic of the WSB, street bike pics in autoblog article

[ssduc]

They certainly appear to be taking the "flattery" to a high level.

Part of this is probably due to the fact that BMW has historically allowed form to follow function. They've worked a lot of the problems using high technology, and once their bike is in the marketplace, the folks who thrive by reverse engineering will be right there to take advantage of it. The function is right, and the form follows. The copycats will copy the form, and hope for the function to follow.

Sadly, its probably only a short matter of time before Kymco, Hyosung, and similar are also copying.

BMW, like all manufacturers, often has function follow form. Take the R1100 bikes for example. BMW was forced to find a way to keep an opposed twin because their loyalists demanded they do so. From an engineering standpoint, keeping that motor made no sense once they moved beyond air cooling.

The S1000RR is an amazing bike, but let's be realistic here. To get to the S1000RR, BMW bought every superbike available and then tore them apart. Do you think they pulled the geometry out of thin air? To not build a bike this way, by starting from scratch, would be lunacy. To claim Kawasaki is stealing design elements of the S1000RR is to completely ignore the 30 years of Japanese superbike development that preceded BMW's effort. The S1000RR is just another evolutionary step that will surely continue with each manufacturer contributing something new to already well established design and engineering principles.