Have tyre manufactures got it wrong?

[Major_Trouble]

I am not sure where to post this generic motorcycle based question so Eka, Bernardo please move it to an appropriate section. Hopefully not the trash.

The recent years has seen the introduction of duel / multi compound tyres with harder center / softer edges which, in theory, should give us the best of both worlds. Good milage but also good grip in the bends. The manufactures must obviously do a lot of testing to establish the best combination of compounds to give us the best tyres but I find them lacking and want to ask this community for their real world experience.

I prefer to ride more 'all rounder' type motorcycles having owned over the years CBR 600, GPX750, VFR 750 (and others) before seeing the light and now settling with BMW K bikes. Unless I've cocked the corner up my style of riding is to get braking done upright, tip into the corner on a constant throttle and power out once past the apex with various levels of enthusiasm depending on conditions and mood.

This 'style' typically, after a couple of thousand miles, leaves me a tyre wear pattern of.....

Back: Flat center. Not a nice curved shape but worn mainly in the centre with two 'shoulders' to get over when leaning.

Front: V shaped. The hard center has stood up but the softer edges have worn faster. This now 'raised' center causes the bike to feels like it wants to drop into a corner when you start leaning from verticle.

It's not a nice combination with a back end that doesn't want to turn and a front that can't wait!!

I want to know if others here have the same experience of tyre wear? Do you ride in the same style or should I change to get a better wear pattern? Have the tyre manufatures got it wrong? It's mainly the fronts that bother me and the 'drop into / falling over' feel of slower corners. If they made it a softer center compound it would maybe wear more evenly and also give more grip when braking hard. Maybe it's just a style and usage pattern typical to me but I think it could be the way these tyres are made that needs to be addressed.

[skapan]

Sounds like you're a good candidate for single compound tires, especially for the front. I don't see any easy remedy for the rear, it has a lot of power to put down, so a harder center compound would spin up a lot quicker which could get exciting. Have you tried different tire pressures to see if it changes the wear pattern?
I use Metzeler M5's and although the rear ends up similar to yours (tire that is) the front usually suffers cupping before any significant side wear. Eventually there is a flat area on the front tire, but after 8,000 km it's only about 1/4 inch wide and not really noticeable.

[Major_Trouble]

I would like to try a single compound front but keep the duel compound rear but I doubt the tyre manufacturers would recommend that combination which would then be frowned on by insurance companies should the worst happen. If I went for a single compound rear as well as the front it would be worn out fast or I would have to choose a harder, less grippy compound. You just go round in black circles and make do with the tyre manufacturers designs.

Dropping the front tyre pressure slightly might be a solution. Would that give more center wear? Anybody have any thoughts?

My thoughts are the front center compounds of the duel compound tyres is to hard and gives the V shaped wear pattern I experience. Do others have the same wear pattern as me or is it my style of riding?

[jp-]

My original Pirelli rear died at 5000 miles, from a large flat spot in the center. My front Pirelli I replaced at 8000 miles, due to cupping. The tire looked fairly good, but it started shaking the steering slightly when going over 80 mph (which I do everyday!).

My new rear Pilot Road, is doing great, and looks like new with 4000 miles on it. The front Pilot Road, shows no wear with only 1000 miles.

You may want to try adjusting your pressures slightly, and don't be afraid to try different tires.

[Bernardo]

Front: V shaped. The hard center has stood up but the softer edges have worn faster.

I had this V shape on Continental Conti Attack and Michelin Pilot Power 2ct, The last tyre, MIchelin Pilot pure had a better "round shape" . Seems a more progressive compound

I'll see the OEM Metzeler M3 performance, in Fiona

[Major_Trouble]

Thanks everyone so far. Looks like Michelin maybe top choice for replacements for me. Even though my K16 might be considered a touring bike and thus high mileage I prefer twisty roads and avoid highways when 'getting there' isn't the priority. Would be nice if we had a little wider input from the community though.

[FreedomRider]

Fifteen years of daily urban moto legal-livery in SoCal with close attention to tire wear and service life showed me that regular trips to the twisties were necessary if one wished to keep the 0-degree center-tread flat spot from becoming comically obvious as well as problematic in respect to "handling". The high "crown" of the road engineered in for water run-off during our winter season also wears our motorcycle tires just left of the tire's 0-degree crown.

Back in the day I used to get up to 15,000 miles from a full "Touring" compound tire on a contemporary liter(+) bike. But this was done by walking away from stop lights, NEVER jack-rabbit-ing, or regularly making shifts deep in the mid range or above. About the mid 1990's when the hyper sports & power cruisers started pushing 85 or more pounds/feet of torque; even full "Touring" rubber compounds were difficult to get more than 12,000 miles out of.

I ride strictly for pleasure now. I just replaced a 'rear' Continental 'Force-Max' that gave me approx 6,500 miles. I still RARELY "jack-rabbit" stop lights and such. But coming off the apex of turns in a K12's midrange will quickly shred the tire none the less.

At 700 pounds wet, and well over 100 torques at 3000rpm I had anticipated hearing tire wear questions from K16 owners.

[Major_Trouble]

Thanks for your input FreedomRider. It sounds like your observations are the reverse of mine where you get a centre flat band from high miles where I find my front is wearing quickly off the centre band i.e. the first softer compound. The rear is wearing a bit more evenly (slightly flat centre, I guess from use of the right wrist) but the front is starting to get V shaped which makes the bike tip quickly at low speed giving the impression it wants to fall over. It is a heavy bike and puts quite a load through the front and some wear is expected when taking to the twisties. It's just the combination of wear I experience that puzzles me. Is it my style of riding or the design of tyres that produces this pattern of wear (probably both)? Is it a typical wear pattern and if so the tyre manufactures need to design a better tyre/compound combination to help.

Just trying to sound out and see if others get the same wear be it on a K12, K13 or K16 in their various models.

[Major_Trouble]

Front: V shaped. The hard center has stood up but the softer edges have worn faster.

I had this V shape on Continental Conti Attack and Michelin Pilot Power 2ct, The last tyre, MIchelin Pilot pure had a better "round shape" . Seems a more progressive compound

I'll see the OEM Metzeler M3 performance, in Fiona

Thanks Bernado. I have the standard Metzeler on my K16. They grip well enough. Not tried them in the rain. Just the wear pattern for me is awful, like your Contis were it sounds. I'd be interested how your Metzelers hold up after a few thousand kms.

[Eka]

Mine front is also very visible V-shaped. Original rear did last 5000km and it was a slick. Front did 7500km. Second rear was Z8 also, but not C-type. It felt softer with the same pressure. It was finished when i changed it after 4700km. Now i have third Z8 C-type and second front one. I guess i change both at the same time when bike get about 15000km on clock. So it's three rear and two front in 15000km with me. I haven't done much touring so far and these twisty mountain roads are killers for tyres. I really like these Z8's.

[FreedomRider]

Thanks for your input FreedomRider. It sounds like your observations are the reverse of mine where you get a centre flat band from high miles where I find my front is wearing quickly off the centre band i.e. the first softer compound. The rear is wearing a bit more evenly (slightly flat centre, I guess from use of the right wrist) but the front is starting to get V shaped which makes the bike tip quickly at low speed giving the impression it wants to fall over. It is a heavy bike and puts quite a load through the front and some wear is expected when taking to the twisties. It's just the combination of wear I experience that puzzles me. Is it my style of riding or the design of tyres that produces this pattern of wear (probably both)? Is it a typical wear pattern and if so the tyre manufactures need to design a better tyre/compound combination to help.

Just trying to sound out and see if others get the same wear be it on a K12, K13 or K16 in their various models.

Perhaps a couple pounds extra air pressure in the front. It may sound overly simplistic to work; but experience has shown me that experimenting like this can pay off. You got a lot of weight and force bearing down on that wheel & tire, especially when breaking. As mentioned I would go to the twisties about every thousand miles of urban riding so as to even out the wear on the rear tire. In 50 to 100 miles the contour of my rear tire would be ground 'round' again. Your machine is prematurely wearing the "sides" off your "front" tire.


A couple more PSI and perhaps the 0-degree "crown" may better support the weight and breaking forces before sharing/transfering them to the softer of the possible "dual compounds used in the tire.

(addendum)
The original Metzler, and I believe a Bridgestone BT021 ‘front’ tire wore horribly on my K1200R. I got even wear and fair service life out of a Conti Attack ‘front’, and am presently VERY pleased with a 3000mile old BT016 ‘front’.

I’m presently 1000miles into a Dunlop Sportmax Q2 ‘Rear’ tire. So far I can report it sticks like Velcro, is very quiet, and works well with the Bridgestone BT016 front tire.