Explaining to the family you still love them. . . .

[JBinSD]

OK, after just about 5 weeks on my K1300s, I notice my wife is ever-so-more grumpy, giving me the cold shoulder, etc. We finally have it out at 3 am: she's concluded I don't love her and my daughter because I made the "suicide" decision to ride a sportbike. I was so angry at first I didn't respond. Her reasoning is that if I really cared about them , I wouldn't take such unnecessary risks.

I have to admit, at almost 44 yrs old, I don't NEED to ride. I just really, really, WANT to ride, and enjoy it immensely. Having reviewed the crash forums, and the RIPs that come up almost weekly, I can't deny my life expectantcy will evaporate the longer I ride, and it IS a selfish act.

I almost put my bike on Craigs yesterday, but went for a ride first. Man, its just so freeing and fun, but no matter how safely I ride, there's always the arsehole who's not looking or someone leaving a pub, chatting on a phone, etc, and we can't compensate for that, no matter how careful we are.

I've been on a bike since my lawn-mower powered bikes at 4, but I'm legitimately conflicted on the issue. maybe track only? I haven't ever ridden a track, but the lack of cage-dwellers would seem to make it a more reasonable risk, although pushing the limits would be an obvious threat as well.

So my question is, those who have families, how do you explain your choice to accept the risk? I'm still working through this, but would like to know whatya think. . .
cheers,
Joel

[SHIVA]

excellent post. look forward to the replies.

[motorbikez]

I have a young family myself, daughter aged 10 son aged 7 and to be honest I don't think about wrapping myself round a tree or killing myself.I'm a firm believer if your time is up your time is up.

Of course you can mitigate risks in life and you do so.Would your wife be so concerned if you said you were going to take up horse riding? probably not.But statistically it is far more dangerous than motorcycling, like for like you are 3 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured riding a horse than motorcycling.

Many things in life are a risk, smoking,taking drugs,excessive drinking, crossing the road etc, just chill and enjoy your time on your bike.

[thebigblue]

Hi Joel.
I´m 51 and divorced with a son and a daughter, and started on the bike last year.

Your choice of riding a bike naturally don´t mean you don´t love your wife and kids. This way of thinking haven´t even crossed my mind.
We only live one life, you need to do what makes you happy in life, if that's riding a bike, you need to ride a bike, it´s that simple in my opinion.
I´m sure we are all aware of the risk involving when riding a bike, but that´s part of life. We can´t live our life without risk, and in fear of loosening it, even crossing the street involves risk. I´m sure your wife won´t stand in the way of your happiness and fulfillment in life, if she loves you, and riding the bike are a part of this. In marriage it´s important not to try to change each other, this will lead to some really bad compromises, and when we have succeeded in altering our loved ones, involved in to many compromises, the love dies in the process.

You are what you are, and that´s what she fell in love with, I guess .
I will surely take the risk of getting killed or injured, while being happy in my life, it being on the bike, while skiing, hiking, scuba diving or during mountaineering or something else, than live forever in a dull unexciting way of life. We all need to live our life full. A life filled with excessive danger management and risk calculation are not the way to live a full life. One life, live it.

Cheers, hope this make some kind of sense.

[Bernardo]

Hi Joel . This is my shot (with spanish gun! )

All who ride on high-end bikes over 200 km / h are brainless or suicidal?, perhaps, If true I am on this team

There are many examples explaining this. We chose bikes with unique elements of safety: ABS, ASC, quality construction, the best tires and others, that allows us to reduce risk, statistically the most serious accidents involves motor bikes with little power, small wheels and weak brakes.

It is very possible that all the people who say is too bad and risky to ride a motorcycle do not experienced ever, but is just as bad or risky as any other extreme sport: skydiving for instance.

Are we riders insane or mindless?, yes, I think so, but is in our nature, I am not psychologist or anything, but is like the scorpion that stings the frog as it crosses the river and says "sorry, is in my nature "(The Crying Game movie)

I think personally it's dangerous, I know that there are few alternatives emerge unscathed in an accident, I know the slightest mistake can cost me life, but it is also true that I can kill myself to get out of the tub.

Every day in my work I see accidents, some so stupid that they are hard to believe that may have occurred, and also think it can touch me one day, but I don’t necessarily going to be on my bike.

Human beings are very weak in the surrounding environment: At work, on the street, why there must be an accident? and why the accident has to be on a motorcycle?.

Guys, It’s true, Life is good, I love biking, is my 13th bike, I can’t avoid to think in this way…

[JBinSD]

I agree with most of what everyone is saying, living in fear of something bad happening is not really living. I have good life insurance, so that makes me feel a little more responsible, bu obviously we risk death every time the kickstand goes up, whether or not its in our control. I always tell my wife and daughter that if I've ever taken down on the bike, at least they should know that I went doing something I loved, and that I understood the risks up front.

Instead of selling the bike, I'm now looking into better spine protectors maybe even a Leatt brace, and I'll try to be conscious of not taking stupid risks on the bike. I just started ridiing with a meetup group in San Diego, good guys but I tink at times I might push beyond what I'm comfortable with to keep up or look cool. I think Im going to cover my roundel with a pic of my 8 yr old daughter to remind me whats most important.

The irony is that I am a criminal defense attorney, and I have represented people that have killed and been killed on bikes before. I also hae a bunch of friends that are ER docs, most think I'm insane, (but one rides with me). No one can ever say I didn't know the risks going in, but maybe that makes me more the chump for continuing to ride.

Thanks for letting me vent and sharing your thoughts,
Joel

[SHIVA]

I think this post relates to the whole site, so I am moving it to the Open Forum. It may also relate to the Crash Site, but for now it will reside in the Open Forum.

[Nefarius]

I have been riding bikes most of my life. Quite honestly, up until a few years ago, I never even thought of riding a motorcycle as being dangerous. I just grew up around them, and accepted them as a normal part of life. I guess I can blame my parents for that, because my Dad was a bike rider as well.. It is not reasonable equating riding a motorcycle, with not loving your wife and children. In her defense, I honestly think she is just scared, and that is the only way she can express it. Do you keep riding knowing that she is afraid?? I don't know. My wife knew all about me going into the relationship. Motorcycles, skydiving, fast cars, scuba diving, aerobatics, etc..etc.. Would I quit riding if she was that scared?? I don't know. I am glad I don't have to make that decision. Am I going to die on a motorcycle? I don't know. It's easy to say "well we all die anyways", but the reality is, we also have responsibilities, and dead is forever. I know at 54, I am taking less risks than I did when I was younger, and my riding is reflecting that as well. I don't have a death wish, and I think that is the key here. Just because we ride, doesn't mean we want to die. Just because we jump out of airplanes, doesn't mean we want to die. My wife doesn't share my joy of riding, but she has accepted that as being part of who I am, and knows I will do my best to take care of myself when riding my motorcycle, diving in my home-built submarine, flying an airplane, wreck diving, or whatever I am doing.
Thanks for the thought provoking post..

my 2 cents..

Dale.

[R90SK100RSK1300S]

obviously we risk death every time the kickstand goes up

I think it's easy to get into this kind of mindset, but I don't think it accurately reflects the risks involved in motorcycling. For me the risks are directly proportional to the exercise of good judgement, and with the examples quoted, if a rider comes to grief, it would seem that defensive riding is a secondary consideration. Especially with other vehicles, WE put OURSELVES at risk if we, even once, rely on the judgement of others. NEVER do this, or you WILL eventually come to grief. Same with road conditions. This doesn't mean we all have to crawl along at 50km/hr, but you pick your time to adopt the various behaviours we all exhibit from time-to-time.

My direct neighbour is in fact an ER doctor at the local hospital. he got his first bike (BMW) about 3 years ago... surprised me. He came back from a holiday in South America with his wife unwell, and she died from cancer last weekend, only 7 weeks after diagnosis. Life's just one big risk wherever you go...

Jamie

[Goodtimesawait]

Just remember to abide by ATGATT every single time you get on the bike, no matter how long the ride. You're near Motoport, so get yourself fitted in head to toe kevlar with quad armor. I won't get on my bike unless I am all geared up!

[throttlemeister]

I do NOT agree with the sentiment in this thread. Motorcycle riding is, in my opinion, NOT inherently dangerous. Yes, there are higher risks than driving a car, but these can be significantly mitigated by wearing a helmet and proper protecting gear. Even more, the risks you expose yourself to are directly related to your own behavior and wether or not you drive defensive expecting the worst from your fellow road users. Riding a bike does not all of sudden reduce your life expectancy.

You can get yourself killed in countless ways. Hell, you could cross the street to your neighbor and get run over. Like my grandpa used to say: if you want to avoid risks and getting killed, stay at home in bed and pray to God the roof doesn't come down on you.

Interesting statistic: in the US, you are almost as likely to get killed at home in a fire than you are getting killed on a motorcycle. If you leave out DUI cases, you are more likely to die at home due to a fire than you are getting killed on your bike.

You are also about 3 times more likely to get shot and killed in a homicide than you are in a motorcycle accident.

If you drive safe and don't do stupid things you will be ok, and you should convince your wife that you do just that.

[Thommo]

Wow. So many ideas attached to this, and an issue I have thought about, with a 7 and 4 year old to keep in mind.
I put riding in at the riskier end of the activity spectrum, not because it is of itself risky, but because the possible consequences of it going wrong, can be at the heavy end.
Like us all, I and many friends have had their near misses / off's. To me, these events were characterised by 1) generally top notch riding kit, 2) varying degrees of possibly misguided exuberance and over-confidence, and 3) sometimes a random element (car, animal etc).
Each time, item 1 helped prevent long term injury/significant permanent disability.
We can manage 2 if we think about it, and make an effort to improve our skills etc. The longer I ride, and watch new riders climbing the learning curve, the more I think how vital (and often underestimated) this factor is.
As others have said, the random element may get us, whatever we do, but i figure you can't not live, trying to avoid life's curve balls.
Excepting absolute 10/10ths racing, I don't think the track should be feared for the same reasons. Proper gear, training and attitude, should avoid most concerns.
I am fortunate, in that my wife encourages me to ride, because she knows it keeps me sane. However, she has had the benefit of nearly 20 years of making her own assessment of how I manage 1 & 2 above, to give her some comfort I guess.
Top thread!
Thanks
Thommo
'09 HP2S

[Pauley2]

We finally have it out at 3 am: she's concluded I don't love her and my daughter because I made the "suicide" decision to ride a sportbike.

You would miss the person you used to be without a bike.
Your family would too.
All part of who we are.
K series is probably the safest around.
Booking into an advanced riding school and spending time with your loved ones with some education might help overcome your wife's anxiousness.
Introducing them into your riding buddy group could also be beneficial.(captain sensible ones only)

Hope you manage your way through.

P.

[JBinSD]

Thanx guyz, all good points. I realize now that skimping on the protection was crazy, I wanted a better, faster bike and was willing to forego better protection in the process. Funny, but in the Harley/Cruiser mindset, I always thought it funny that people were dressing for disaster by "planning to fall/fail", now I realize its inviting disaster not to dress for distress.

I get some comfort from conceptualizing my rides as "my time", wherein I'm adequately prepared, fresh, well-kitted, and hyper vigilent to the risks involved. I often would ride to work without full gear because its a 20 min ride, and it takes almost that long to get into/out of the gear, but it only takes one "off" to regret those extra minutes. Seems the cage is a better option for my simple commute, and saving the K for the hour plus rides might be a better option.

I agree that selling the bike would put me ever-bitter for what I have/was, and I'm comfortable know the K1300s I have now is probably the last bike I'll own, so I'll use it sparingly, with respect, but still ride like hell when conditions/time/place/equipment allow.

Thanks for all the varied insight, it helps develope a respect and perspective for each person on the road, and why they're there.

Cheers,
Joel

[sundog]

i've been thinking quite a bit about this thread over the last 24hrs...
i think a parent, spouse, friend etc, who ISN'T concerned everytime we get on our bikes is hard to find.

WHen i was a student in london, i had saved enough money to buy a bike and mentioned this to my dad.
He basically said, if i bought a bike, he would stop paying for my degree because i would end up killing myself anyway.
Once i was self sufficient, he had no say in the matter, but continues to hate bikes. I didn't even tell him when i bought my first bike.
It's somewhat sad, because its a major part of who i am and how i spend a large portion of my time.

In my opinion, one of the saddest things we can do to ourselves, is to be lying on our death bed, old and wrinkled, regretting not having done things.
Imagine thinking "why didn't i do that?"," i wish i had ridden that road or taken that holiday but now i can't and my time is up".
It;s been said before, but life is short and we should cram in as many things as we can.

I think someone on here has a signature something along the lines of "funny how we feel most alive when we're closest to death".
This is of course hyperbole, but there is truth in it.

[firebirdn]

Great post!

As a motorcycle rider with a family I too don't think I'll ever stop hearing about how dangerous mototrcycles are etc, etc. I am young (25) and at times I do find myself driving wreckless if you will. I was thinking of getting rid of my bike the other day. After a ride of grabbing a good fistful of throtlle and finding myself doing about 100 + mph over the speed limit.I said to myself his thing is scary and I'm going to die young! I have gotten rid of three bikes already and every time I say the same thing. These are way dangerous and fast. Then a year goes by and I can't live without one. I'm sure like every other rider on this forum I avoid traffic accidents on a weekly basis it seems. So yes I 100% agree that motorcycles are dangerous relative to automobiles.Other drivers are doing dumb shit more and more everyday it seems{cell phones, eating, not paying attention,etc} Many factors def help your odds{defensive driving, proper gear, visibility,not driving like a mad man} But all things considered......There is nothing like riding a motorcycle (especially a BMW I can give up driving like a mad man but I can never give up riding a motorcycle!

~Jake

[Eka]

To be honest, if someone say to me you have to choose between me or bike, it's most likely the bike. I can't imagine be with anyone so selfish to dump mine biggest passion. If you love me, you have to give up everything else and do everything as i wish ... yes, sure.

[gls620]

back when, i had an R100RS..my son was to young/small to ride behind me, so he rode in frt of me..today he rides a 1300S and is 38 yo and i still ride at 70 yo at a slower pace, and enjoy every ride...had i listened to those that will never know what i did..i would be a very sad old man now...and part of the enjoyment i get with my rides today, are still about the motorcycle, but also the enjoyment of the lifestyle and the feeling of Youth!

[JBinSD]

Actually, the irony in the love/hate relationship of our spouses/significant others is tough. While what sundog said is true, why wouldn't someone who cared about us at least worry when when get on a bike?

I kinda think its like religion. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I'm an atheist. When people try to force their religion on me, I try to politely decline, but I understand their moral obilgation . If they're right, and I'm going to burn in hell, I'd want them to try to change me, but I wouldn't necessarily change. So if my wife could "guilt" me off the bike, maybe it seems selfish, but maybe she's saving my life.

On the otherhand, as Eka says, someone who tries to change me can't love me for who I am. I owed a bike (albeit a HD) when she met me. I've always had bikes. She knows its a part of my life I enjoy, and choose to pursue. Its an assumption of the risk argument, but always effectively countered by the reply: you have a loving wife and daughter, a beatiful house, nice (BMW) car. Why risk it all?

BTW, I did get fully kitted out for the 15 min. ride to work today, but I DID take the bike, not the cage. The internal (and external) debate rages on, but damn, I still love to ride

[Ed F K]

Familiar with the concept of "Cost Avoidance?"

To elaborate a bit, the cost of product or service could, but will not necessarily, decrease from a cost avoidance...it might just not increase as much due to a cost avoidance.

And if the cost of a product or service increases, one might be mislead to believe there were no hidden cost avoidances, without which the cost of the product or service would be much higher.

How does this relate?

Well, when one follows their dreams and passions to ride, a "cost avoidance" of resentment and unhappiness is created. Or from other way around, if the ability to ride is taken away, the emotional cost rises, and emerges, possibly somewhere else in the relationship.

Of course, one needs to have fun, but not be stupid and take unnecessary risks, increasing the probability of other costly outcomes.

[skapan]

What were you riding before the K13? I spoke to my wife about this to get her perspective, and she's thinking it's the BMW badge that's causing an issue. It's not like your riding a bike was a surprise, so what has changed? Perhaps the brand of bike has a detrimental effect.
I've been riding for over 40 years, and without exception, every year at least a few people make the comment "oh, I could never have one of those, I'd kill myself". Perhaps a backhanded compliment about self control, but more likely the layman's lack of understanding of riding in general. A bike looks dangerous, a "sportbike" more so to the general adult public. Therefore, because they are dangerous, and sportbikes more dangerous, you are crazy to even think about riding one.
Every one knows someone that died on a bike, at least they feel compelled to tell me that they do. I do too, but I know more people that died in cars. Funny that my kids never saw a bike as dangerous, only when adults told them that it was dangerous did they wonder about safety and start asking questions. But they knew instinctively that the kid riding in a t shirt and shorts was far more likely to get hurt if he had an off.
Show yourself as a responsible rider, wear the proper gear at all times, take a track course if the chance comes your way. These are all personal choices that you can make as a result of choosing to ride. And try to get your wife out for a ride, maybe you can convert her.

I'm lucky, my wife has her own bike, so no explanation needed.

[JBinSD]

I rode a Valkyrie, an 800 lb 6 cylinder bike, and an HD superglide for about a decade. My next door nieghbor used to race Aprilia, and one fateful day I traded bikes around the block. I sold my Valkyrie the next day and bought a Ducati. She'd been on the HD and Valkyrie and almost pretended to like it. Took her out on the Ducati, and I think she got scared.

Funny, when I get all kitted-up, I think she thinks I ride faster and more dangerously. She still hasn't set foot on the BMW, but I think she would appreciate the added safety and smootheness of it, especially compared to the Ducati. It looks faster, so it must be more dangerous. . . .I need to educate her more on ABS/ESC. Not that it'll stop a drunk driver or cellphone talker, but may help me avoid them.

She's mellowed out this week, maybe it was hormonal for her, but it also made me think and evaluate, so I guess its good all around. Thanks for all the input guys, its good to hear the varied viewpoints and shared attitude.

[Bernardo]

And she said me: Choose, or that thing or I !, and without any sadness expresion, I started the engine and went far, far away >>>>>>>>>>

[FreedomRider]

A first rate thread gentleman. Insightful, provocative, thoughtful.

41 years I've been riding. In my youth I had parents who feared their daughter(s) on board with me. I later learned if a gal I was chatting up in a 'club' was a nurse; simply move on.(they all had horror stories). Both my Ex'es seemed to go along with the bikes; but maybe again a feeling of 'uncertainty' helped give impetus to our splitting.

In 04 I sold the last remaining bike in my garage thinking a new chapter and plot were culminating. By 06 the chapter was new; but the story was miserable without a two wheeled supporting character. My girlfriend went batshit ballistic when I told her "I'm gonna get another motorcycle". She said "I'll kill myself…. or worse" I said with 35 years and a million miles on em' I guess if I'm "killed… or worse" it is simply "meant to be".

My gal doesn't ride with me, it is NOT her thing, nor is any part of the "Petrol-head" world. She DOES however now fully understand my love of the sport, and is genuinely glad (for my sake) I got back on a bike.

I no longer use my bike for business/commuting anymore as in the past. The changing realities of the world IE: Is the rent-a-cop at the court house security station gonna give me shit for my Dainese "Pro Steel" gloves, or the metallic slide plates built into my "Torque-out" boots? Or how many motorists in traffic are paying attention to their cell-phone rather than their driving) has hugely altered why and when I ride.

Wives and family just as age; "can make cowards of us all". But a little prudence/concession in the "why and when" you ride can or could put salve on their fears of selfishness or irresponsibility.

[Drifter1]

When I wake up in the morning to go to work I have a choice to ride or drive and I will pick riding over driving whenever I can. Because it does not matter either way you can die in a vehicle accident or a motorcycle accident and when your time is up it’s up so enjoy life while you can.