California Superbike school

[jimbop]

I'm heading to Willow Springs for the March 25 and 26 2 day school and I'm extremely excited, so much that I have decided to add on a third day. I'm wondering if anyone out there has attended Keith's school in these first few days of using the new RR? I will be happy to report back once I'm done and hooked.

[Weega]

Jimbop,

as promised... I got back from school on monday, but this is the first opportunity I have to sit and write something about it.
As i told you before, last November I went to levels 1 and 2 with the Kawa 600.
This last week end doing levels 3 and 4 was a complete different ball game. You will be definitely blown away by this bike.
The school was in the classic circuit of Las Vegas Motor Speedway (there are two circuits, the infield and the classic). Last year course was in the infield.
The classic circuit is a lot longer and faster, but despite of that we were running most of the time in rain mode, I run a few sessions on sport mode, never on race. The power output is brutal, so for "unexperienced race riders" it is better to be conservative and use either rain or sport.
Stability is unbelievable. I had a lot of fun despite a small incident in the third session on saturday, where due to overconfidence and the impossible lean angles of these bikes I spill on one of the corners with minor damage to the bike, however cost me extra 950 bucks. So be careful, don't fall.
I don't have pictures yet, they will send the CD by mail next week or so.

Anyway, be prepared for a two, sorry three wonderful days. Enjoy they are intense but go by very fast and you will be ready to come back for more jejejeje

Regards,

JC

[Mirage_ZA]

Sorry to hear about your spill.
So, what actually happened ?

[ssduc]

Do they force you to use rain mode or is it up to each rider?

[cryptmod]

Glad you enjoyed it, I am also thinking about taking this training later this year (not cheap), perhaps a little detail on what you learnt on each level, did you try their training tools such as Slide Bike etc, did it help any?
I was wondering why did you started a new thread about the same topic:)

[jimbop]

I started this thread as I missed the other thread that Weega started, perhaps the Mods can merge them.
So I just got back from 3 days of riding the S1000RR at the Streets of Willow Springs California Superbike School.

Firstly the school is an unbelievable experience and I have to say it is worth every penny. I would equate it to Helli Skiing in Canada. I think that after 3 days I have a much deeper understanding of riding a motorcycle, I feel much more confident that I can ride faster,safer and smoother and that I will be able to get much more out of every ride I go on. Keith Code is a master, he is a guru and an artfull instructor. He and his coaches understand how to teach the art of turning a bike. Each day was filled with knowledge, practice, recursion and reciprocation, each drill is designed to advance your abilities. They don't let you move on until you get what they are saying. You practice and are assessed all the time. We had 1 coach for 2 students so you felt very cared for. You are filmed, photographed, you ride your butt off, you ride the lean machine, you sit on stationary bikes and have your body position looked at...... they don't miss anything. When you make mistakes they treat you graciously but firmly... it's safe, fast and fun.....I am going back next year because I can't get the smile off my face.

And now for the S1000RR
What a bike! Now I want one but that will have to wait.... This has to be one of the easiest motorcycles to ride. The technology is the best, everything you could imagine is there. The power is astonishing, the traction control and electronics are outstanding.. Yes we got to take it out of rain mode and ride in sport mode but honestly for a learning situation I was more comfortable with it in rain mode. In sport mode you could lift the front wheel ever so slightly when you cracked it on in 2nd gear going onto the straights... holy shit hang on.... The learn angle sensors worked very well and you could feel the difference between the two modes. When you were rolling on in rain mode and you were leaned over deep, it would only let you have so much. This was very good for building confidence. I asked Keith Code about the difference between teaching on the Kawi 600's and the S1000RR and he simply stated that they are having far less accidents on the BMW's..... shoots a hole in the old 600 is safer the a litre.. Also it was very comfortable and I could see myself riding many miles at a time.

Cheers,
JP

[Weega]

IIIIIIIIhhhhhhaaaaaaaa

I am glad you liked it

It is awesome.... after being twice at the two day camp I want to go baaaaack

You could not have put this in better words.... Your description of the school and the instructors is right in the spot.

It's been only 10 days since I came back from Las Vegas and I want to keep going, it is addictive...

Good for you Jimbop. I hope we can meet in one of the schools one day

I don´t have my pictures yet because I had to run after school and could not wait for them. They will send them to me in april, as soon as I have them I will post some.

Best Regards,

Weega (JC)

JC

[Weega]

Mirage_ZA, do you know something called overconfidence jajaja. this is what happened... overconfidence + an unbelievable stable bike that you can lean forever.... until you spill jajaja

rgds,

JC

[Weega]

Jimbop,

you could not find the thread I started, because it is in the general discussion, I think I should have started it in this section, sorryyy..here is the link.


viewtopic.php?f=20&t=13557

I hope the moderators can merge them....

rgds,

Weega

[jimbop]

JC,
I did see your thread right after I started mine, no biggy! Hey about your fall in Vegas, two people went down the first day of my school.... cold tires and too much juice. One of the visiting instructors High-sided on the first day also... I bet that doesn't happen very often. I can see why you might have gone down as the bikes just beg you to push push push! I got a couple of lectures for changing lean angle, line and too much throttle a couple of times. It was my first time on a track so I was so excited. I really appreciated the guidance from the instructors, they wanted you to have fun but they also were there to protect you from the unknowns.

One question about when you went down... were you in Rain mode or Sport mode? I couldn't quite decide which was more educational to ride in. In a way I felt Sport mode kept you more honest. As I said earlier Keith Code says they are having less people go down with the BMW's then they did with the Kawi's.

I am going to go to Sears Point in Northern California next year as they say that track is wonderful, nice and wide with great turns and a good surface.

Take care,

James

[atman]

James,

I talked with Will Eikenberry, the chief mechanic at the school, and he said they've had only three crashes so far on the S1000RR, all exactly alike: someone losing the front in a turn on cold tires. Turns out electronics can't beat physics.

I'll try to do a writeup on my experience as well, once I get some sleep.

[cryptmod]

JP I am so jealous, I can’t wait to book a flight to the States in order to attend this training

Mind you, I did the UK chapter of CSS, Level 1 and I can honestly tell you that I learnt absolutely nothing, waste of money & time especially since I had to travel from France.

First of they didn't have the training tools such as Slide Bike, the trainer were shouting & I could not figure out what in hell he were saying to me, didn’t enjoy it one bit, wish I could claim all monies spent back, either way; I was glad when the torture ended.

Few months later, I discovered Lee Parks UK chapter of Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic http://www.totalcontroltraining.co.uk/ , It was the best cornering training I ever attended worth every penny. at only 225 , I highly recommend it to any English speaker within Europe. plus you get to discover where Shakespeare was born.

As I said Total control training was great, however in order to attain the next progression level, its a shame I can't find any UK based school similar to the experience you describe so eloquently. I’ll have to travel all the way to your country for that.

I honestly feel like the UK CSS are just there to take the money without providing value.

Cryptmod.

[andyibbott]

Dear Cryptmod,

I am very sorry to hear that you did not get what you wanted from the schools in the UK. I am a little confused on the points you bought up and would like to clear those up with you. You can contact me directly at andy@superbikeschool.co.uk and we can discuss the issue further.

As I often say in the classroom "you cannot change what you don't know" and reading your dissapointment of the schools on a forum is a little saddening.

Let's see what can be done.

Kind regards

Andy Ibbott
School Director
California Superbike School (Europe, Middle East, Africa, India)

As for those of you who were at Willow at the end of March, it was a god 6 days of schools and great fun for me to be on track with you!

[Mirage_ZA]

I have done CSS in South Africa (Kyalami with Andy and UK crowd). On my K7 GSX-R I used to ride A group on track days, now with K12S I ride in B, track times are not important anymore, there is always someone on the track that you can have nice little "race" - in as safe as possible manner.

Back to CSS - it is BY FAR most advanced school you can spend your money on. People make a mistake expecting to be Valentino after Level 1. Thing is, CSS prepares you with deep understanding of what is actually happening when you brake, steer, accelerate. After classroom, you go for a drill on the track. And you make it a challenge yourself - on the track. Even the very first round - with throttle no brakes - makes you think and focus !
Instructors were friendly, helpful and fun. Statement of previous poster just does not make sense. To me anyway.

[dazoo]

I have never managed to get to CSS yet, but I know many people who have done it in the UK and without fail they have had a good experience.

[cryptmod]

Excuse me for voicing my opinion; you live and attended CSS in SA, not the UK which is where I went, look! your mileage may vary.

Your anology about Valentino I find simplistic without basis.

I stated that I didn’t get value for money in Level 1to make me consider Level 2 in the UK because the training tools (Lean bike, Braking bike, Video Bike control trainer, no BS Machine, ) made available to the American students. were not available to us; plus I couldn’t comprehend what my designated trainer was shouting at me, which part of those statement does not make sense to you?

I am glad that Andy himself (Director) has taken the time out to contact this forum and perhaps correct my perception of his UK school if I choose to reciprocate.

[Alpinebiker]

I've been interested to follow this thread as I've been considering taking one of these schools for a long time now. Like the OP I would have to travel from France to attend, although the lure of the Spanish days are much more attractive! I have always found the pricing to be the factor that prohibits me from attending, as living in France I'd have to trailer, or van, my RC45 to the track, and having gone so far, would want to take both levels one and two together, which means even more expense.

I've taken the Ron Haslam school Premier (600's) course twice, and the Elite (datalogged Blades) three times, but really feel that the format is exhausted, especially since they no longer want to let you lead, and without an instructor following to see your mistakes, all you're doing is riding round in circles, which you can do yourself at a track day for a lot less money.

The CSS seemed to me a perfect formula, instruction, commentary, and feedback, so having got closer to deciding to splash the cash, probably in the UK, I was a little surprised to see this post, which to be fair, is the first negative one I've seen about this school. I would hope that seeing that Andy Ibbott has made the effort to see what could be done to "sort" your issues, that you do make contact with him, discuss your points directly with him, and then let this forum have the benefit of knowing what was discussed/agreed/resolved.

There are always two sides to every story, and I have no doubt your grievances are genuinely held, but if a hand of friendship or olive branch is proffered, sometimes it's the bigger gesture to acccept it. Refusing to "discuss" problems solves nothing, and I for one would be really interested to see how this one ends.

Thanks for keeping us updated.

PAUL

[Mirage_ZA]

Excuse me for voicing my opinion; you live and attended CSS in SA, not the UK which is where I went, look! your mileage may vary.

Your anology about Valentino I find simplistic without basis.

I stated that I didn’t get value for money in Level 1to make me consider Level 2 in the UK because the training tools (Lean bike, Braking bike, Video Bike control trainer, no BS Machine, ) made available to the American students. were not available to us; plus I couldn’t comprehend what my designated trainer was shouting at me, which part of those statement does not make sense to you?

I am glad that Andy himself (Director) has taken the time out to contact this forum and perhaps correct my perception of his UK school if I choose to reciprocate.

If I came across as abrupt or impolite, I apologize.
Just like you - I was sharing my CSS experience. In SA we didn't have training tools either. We were told what to on track in classroom session so there is/was no need to chat to instructor and assistant in the pits before he would let you go on the track would ask you to repeat why are you going on the track - what is the "drill". Furthermore, students are encouraged at all times to communicate with instructor or any other CSS staff member about any problem. I clearly remember reading somewhere in CSS booklet how they are committed or interested (can't remember the wording exactly) in students progress and wanting and willing to help. That is why your posts lukewarm post did not make any sense to me - if your instructor was shouting why didn't you ask someone else to assist ? Were you not told what is the task ahead in classroom session ?

[andyibbott]

Dear Cryptmod,

Just to make things clear on how the off track drills work. On Level 1, you complete the steering drill, on Level Two you use the Lean Bike, On three, the Brake Rig and finally on Level Four, the Slide Bike. This is of course, weather dependant and space dependant. So, at some circuits we cannot do these drills.

I have made this post due to the fact I have not had any returned communication from you yet, either via the forum, email or PM.

All the best

Andy

[cryptmod]

Andy.

I believe I already described my dissatisfaction, and do not wish to go on record, instead preferring to remain anonymous on this matter.

I would appreciate a feedback and what you would do make sure the same tools are always available to all paying UK students, raise the bar on your coach’s training delivery methods, and lastly increase the value to the same standard as the American students currently enjoy.

Thanks for making contact.

Cryptmod.

[dazoo]

I believe I already described my dissatisfaction, and do not wish to go on record, instead preferring to remain anonymous on this matter

I think this demonstrates how valid your complaints are. You have the ear of the person who runs the UK series, he wants to hear the detail of what disappointed you about your experience and you refuse to give any further detail. It's easy to sit back and say 'that's shit', not so easy when you are actually faced with someone who knows what they are talking about.

By posting comments as you have done, you are potentially affecting the livelihood of people and the success of their businesses. If you're going to start spouting off, then at least have the balls to explain exactly what the problems were when someone has the decency to offer to listen and improve things.

Your comments are based on two aspects - 1 you didn't have a slide bike etc and 2 the instructors shouted and you didn't understand.

Andy has explained that the slide bike is not part of level one and also that there are factors which limit what rider aids they can use. On the second issue you provide no detail at all - did you not listen during the briefing, did you not understand the English, were you ignoring instruction or riding dangerously? There are many potential scenarios.

So either help Andy to improve the things that you found to be wrong, or stop posting unfounded claims. The very fact that Andy Ibbott is posting here and seeking your feedback tells me that they are interested in making sure they can continue to improve, at least give them that chance.

[Keith Code]

I just want to make one point clear on this. Here in the USA we don't offer the special training bikes on single day schools either. In our 2-Day Camps we do and using them is one of the perks of that school format. It would be very helpful to us if cryptmod would get in touch with Andy by PM or otherwise and see if what happened could be ironed out, made up for or what have you. Our sole purpose in this game of training riders is to deliver a superior training day. We don't sit back on our 31 years and say "we know it all", we listen to what students have problems with both in their riding or in their training...it is why we do what we do.

Best,

Keith

[Eka]

[dazoo]

Keith Code and Andy Ibbott both posting and asking for ways to improve the CSS? Good to know that some companies are actively looking for ways to improve their service.

Hope you have something worthwhile to say now you have everyone's attention, Cryptmod.